Healing Your Body Image from the Inside Out with Deb Schachter

Ruth Soukup: Ever look in the mirror and think, Ugh, why can’t I just feel better about my body? You are not alone. But what if that inner criticism wasn’t the enemy? A clue. What if those thoughts were actually your body’s way of asking for something deeper? Today’s conversation is going to flip the script on everything you thought you knew about body image, and show you a completely different way forward.

Here at Thinlicious we’ll talk about everything from the science of weight loss to practical tips for making your health a priority in the midst of a busy life. It’s a little bit nerdy, a little bit funny, and a little bit revolutionary.

So buckle up friend, because it’s about to get real.

For those of you who don’t know me, my name is Ruth Soukup and I am the founder of Thinlicious and the creator of the Thin Adapted System. And today we’re chatting with Deb Schachter, a seasoned therapist and one of Boston’s top experts in body image and eating disorder recovery.

With over 30 years of experience, Deb brings a powerful mix of mindfulness, curiosity, and deep compassion to her work. Helping women not just fix how they feel about their bodies, but understand why those feelings are showing up in the first place. She’s also the co-author of the new book Body Image Inside Out, and believe me, what she shares today is something every woman needs to hear.

So let’s get right to it.

Deb, thanks so much for being here today. I’m so excited to talk to you. 

Deb Schachter: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Likewise. 

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. So let’s just start with the basic question. I like to start with everyone. Who are you, what do you do, and how did you get to be doing what you are now? 

Deb Schachter: It’s always, it’s always, uh, such an interesting thing to answer.

So I’m gonna orient, um, around my practice, but really, you know, part of what I, um, feel so passionate about is working with body image specifically. So, um, my name is Deb Schachter. I have a private practice in Boston, Massachusetts. I’m a licensed clinical social worker and have been doing individual group work and group work for about 30 years and about 20 years ago, um.

I, uh, made a wonderful friend and we happened to start talking about body image in a really, uh, different way than either of us had ever talked about it before. And we started running workshops. So we’ve been running those for about 20 years now. And, um, in 2019 I had run one independently because at that time my co-author Whitney had, um, had kids and was caught up in some other things.

And I ran one, um, on my own. Kinda circled back to her and I said, I think we gotta put this in a book. And so we embarked on a web, on a book. Um, and, and five years later, here we are. So, um, so, uh, it was quite a journey and we learned so much through the writing so much more. I mean, I’ve always felt so passionate about body image, but the book taught me so much and I, in really finding language for how to do this work and how to think about how to understand what body image work really looks like.

So. 

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. Amazing. That’s amazing. There is nothing that will like make you question your self worth. I feel like more than writing a book. 

Deb Schachter: Oh my god. I thought you were gonna say the body image, but isn’t it? Yeah. Oh, excruciating. Yeah, excruciating. It’s, it’s been fascinating and especially co-writing ’cause we have very different backgrounds.

Whitney’s a, um, Oly was a, um, Olympic world champion, rower and an athlete, and I’ve been in sort of the therapy, you know, bubble. Um, and so she’s been much more in the athletic world, so just for each of us, I think. But you know, like you said, it challenges your self worth. And at the same time, you know, when we wrote the book, we felt really clear.

We wanted it to really be for everyone because. Everyone lives in a body and everybody has feelings about it. And so it’s so, I mean, that was part of what got me excited about writing the book was that it wasn’t just an eating disorder book. Not that that’s not incredibly important, but that there are so few places that we know how to talk about body image or that we’ve been taught to talk about body image in a way that feels connected or.

Or you know, we really try and bring a lot of levity and humor to it. It’s so hard to find places to do that. So we really wanted to create a space where people could do that in a really different kind of way. 

Ruth Soukup: I love that. I love that. So tell me a little bit more about your methodology or what you sort of stuff Yeah.

You were working together and how that works. 

Deb Schachter: Yeah. Yeah. So the name of the book is Body Image Inside Out. Originally we called. Um, the workshops, the body, self, and sort of the origins of it are really based in the friendship that Whitney and I had because so early we both were in recovery ourselves from eating disorders and really were in, you know, very stable places in terms of our recovery.

But we sort of felt like we both had hit kind of a glass ceiling with body image that there’s sort of like. But I, I think to this day, I think there’s sort of this assumption like you just tolerate it, you fix it or you tolerate it. And so we really got curious about that. And you know, I think what just happened organically is a, that it was so fun to be able to, and who would think of it as this fun, but to talk about body image was someone else in a safe way that felt more, um.

Just kind of like, um, free almost. It was sort of like we just started to share these stories in the ways that we thought about our bodies in a, in a way that just felt sort of natural. And I think from that we just realized like how much more could really come out when you create that kind of environment where there’s that kind of safety maybe when it isn’t even therapy in a way, right?

Where it’s not like I should be saying this or thinking this. It was just kind of these goofy stories that we had and names that we had come up with for our various. You know, body parts or phases of our life or, um, and so you know, what started as that really morphed into not only the, the safety, but also the clarity that.

We started to notice both, I think for each other and for ourselves, that our body image got louder at different times, and that was really interesting. So starting to really track the whys and the whens of that, even though you know that that may last a day, a week, a month. A decade, but really getting curious about where life and body image intersect and that, that really felt like an untapped kind of thing to explore.

And that’s where we really started getting curious. And then what happened when we wrote the book, which was really kind of blew both of our minds, was the chapter that we didn’t know existed, which was body image and relationships. And really looking at how our body image is informed by our relational life, both in terms of, you know.

Our past, our families of origin, but really also thinking about in our day to day, why is it sometimes when we wake up in the morning we feel fine and then all of a sudden we feel like our pants are too tight and we need to go home and you know, put on a burlap sack, something’s happened and it’s relational.

99% of the time it’s relational. It could be, oh my God, I’m going to my reunion, or I just saw my mother-in-law. It could be anything, but there’s something relational that’s happening. And once we kind of. Aha. That when we were writing, we sort of thought, oh, game changer. This is where the work is, is helping people really start to get curious about that interplay between their relationships and their body image and those spikes and valleys.

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. That’s so interesting. So have you found, you know, you’ve worked with all, all these different clients. Have you found that there’s certain correlations for certain things? Are there patterns that happen or does it look totally different for everyone? 

Deb Schachter: It’s such a great question. I think, I think it is different for everyone in that, you know, we talk about how we help people sort of translate their body image and for their unique story, but the themes that that I think really again, got sort of captured in this chapter that we were trying to articulate to, to your point, there’s nothing that makes you more humble that these are things I’ve thought about, but to put into words.

Okay. We actually. We, we don’t start worrying about our body. You know, we may start worrying about our bodies when we’re, you know, preteen or teen or whatever. But our first relational mirrors are our parents, our caregivers. So there’s all kinds of information. It may be body image related or body related.

You’re so athletic, you have your mother’s thighs, whatever. But it can also be, you know, just the ways we experience, how we experience, whether we. Are seen and understood and you know, whether people are curious about us, how we connect to people, and how they kind of give us, you know, messages around how we can be, um, accepted by them or loved by them.

So. Really what’s become our, um, kind of quintessential workshop is looking at those stories, looking at each of our unique stories, but those patterns around that early mirroring and how then as we move into our adult lives, when there may be. Um, repetitions of some of that early mirroring, mirroring. So that could be, you know, if we were really, um, we always felt like we needed to be the funny one in our family, or we were the, you know, we had a, an ill sibling, so we were the ones that kept our needs really small.

How those may show up in our adult relationships and how often there are body image bumps that happen in those places because we’re trying to manage some of the feelings that we. Don’t even realize we’re trying to manage through body image or through, you know, our sense of our body and what it may, how it could be better or, um, make the, make the relationship somehow improved.

Ruth Soukup: Huh. So what does that look like for you in your personal story, in your personal journey? Like how, where did you kind of start and then Yeah, 

Deb Schachter: like, let’s dig into it. That’s such good questions. Yeah. So, um, I guess what I would say is, and I, again, I didn’t figure this out until one of our, when we did actually our launch, someone asked this question, but it was really helpful for me is I think for so many of my clients, and I think for so many.

Women for sure. And people in general. You know, we live in very sensitive bodies. We take in so much our body, and our body is the longest relationship we are will ever have. So there’s so much sensation that happens in there. And I think for me, and I definitely didn’t know this at the time, I live in a, a very highly sensitive body.

So when I started to feel big things first, they were just, they felt like a lot or too much. And I don’t think. In my family, I was necessarily taught how to manage some of those big feelings. And, and what we often find, to get back to your question about patterns is that often big feelings be come with big sensations, and then those sensations can kind of start to feel like our body is changing because we don’t exactly understand what’s happening when we’re feeling all of this stuff.

Right. It’s all happening. Split seconds and all of a sudden, you know, a, uh, a sort of like giness in our belly, all of a sudden we’re like, oh, my belly feels bigger. Right? There are all these things that happen o often without even, you know, our own interpretation. They, they, they just sort of evolve within, within us as these moments are happening.

So, so for me, I. Think being focused on my body and my body image was a way to manage a lot of the big sensations that I didn’t know how else to discharge or, or, or process or metabolize. Mm-hmm. And it wasn’t until we actually, I mean, I think I always knew that, but it wasn’t until we wrote the chapter where I really got clear around the sort of coupling of emotions and sensations.

What we think about our bodies that I was thinking, oh, that’s what I was doing that whole time. Some of it was about, you know, looking right and looking, having a good butt and whatever. But so much of it was about all of the things that were happening inside me that I didn’t know how else to manage. And so that’s really become my, it’s probably my favorite part of the whole book is getting people and, and the work is getting people back to the sensations.

And it’s something I think about all the time because. For the most part, I’d say, you know, my body image is relatively steady, but my body sensations now, I’m so much more aware of and I have so much more fluctuation because I think my body really senses into so much of what I feel every day. So it, it doesn’t move into the, the body as much from, I mean, it doesn’t move into body image and at this point my body is gonna be what it’s gonna be.

Yeah. Um, I’ve made a lot of peace with that, but, but in terms of the big feelings. That feels so important. So for me, it shows up more now in terms of sensations and tightness and, you know, intention and different ways that I’ve learned to really understand that so much of my emotional life is housed in my body experience.

So that was a long-winded answer, but I, I hope that made sense. Oh, 

Ruth Soukup: really interesting. There’s so much that comes up for me. I mean, there’s so much mindfulness that like that you’re speaking to, of just learning how to sit with those feelings. And I’ve gone through a lot of therapies. So I, 

Deb Schachter: yeah. Relate to 

Ruth Soukup: that.

But, uh, yeah, I mean, a couple things that come out of it for me is number one, like, don’t, don’t you find that you learn what you teach, right? Like what you need to learn is, oh my God, a thousand percent. Feel that so much and I have a second business. That is where I teach online business owners how to successful businesses.

And I always find that I never really understand a concept until I teach it. Right. A system, a concept, whatever I’m teaching. Yeah. It never really gels for me until I start going, okay, how am I gonna teach this to somebody else? 

Deb Schachter: Exactly. Totally, totally. And it was so cool. That’s what was so humbling and amazing about writing the book was that I’ve been doing this for 30 years, but to try and really capture in words, whoa, like I’ve been talking about ways that the language I use is we shape and shapeshift in our families before we’re.

Trying to change our shape, right? We’re already, like if I’m the, you know, again, the quiet one, the accommodating one, the funny one, we’re already shape shifting, and then that moves into this whole other space of like, oh, if I change my body, how might that actually change these dynamics? All of that. I’ve used that language, but I’d never hashed that all out.

And now we use these little, in the workshops, we use these little puzzle pieces and we have everyone write words on them and all this cool stuff that we never would’ve known to do. Right. Yeah. So exactly what you said. It’s so cool to actually like flesh it out. It’s really cool. 

Ruth Soukup: And to, and to realize it, I mean, just even everything that you were saying about just kind of growing up in your body and think, and the way that you process things.

Right. And I think back to my childhood and just the stuff that happened and, and then in high school I did develop an eating disorder, but it was. It was so related to, it was not, it had nothing to do with food. It was everything to do with control and feeling outta control with my family situation and the dynamics and, and my mom, you know, she was mentally ill and so there was a lot of instability and there was just like so much craziness and that was like my thing to like 

Deb Schachter: totally.

Ruth Soukup: Too, and I see it so much now, you look back and you re and like, like I said, lots of therapy, but you go, you go back and kind of like, now realize that those thi same things come up. And even what you were saying about like Exactly, oh, I was always the clumsy one. I was so tall and awkward and those were the words that people would use to describe me.

Right. Like so gangly and awkward and, and I always felt like this, like I was a head taller than everybody else. And that those things always came back later, especially when I, I gained a lot of weight. And became lar larger. Right. And, and so not only was I, did I already feel bigger than everyone now I was overweight and felt like this giant person that was around like, so always, and, and then I felt like everybody around me was tiny and I didn’t, and that was always what would come up to me, right?

Like for me was why am I so big and everybody else is so tiny. 

Deb Schachter: Totally. You 

Ruth Soukup: kind of, and then those are the moments of insecurity that come back over and over again. So. Absolutely. How do you go, like how, where do you go with all of this to to like move past it? 

Deb Schachter: In my own life or with my clients? 

Ruth Soukup: With both.

You can talk about yourself. You can talk about your clients. You can tell me. I mean, I think. 

Deb Schachter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what I would say is, um, you know, really the, the way that the book is laid out is kind of, I think the way we, and again, like you said, the challenge of like, whoa, this is actually how we do this work with people, but is this idea that, you know, we really start to develop a relationship with our body image.

So we call it couples therapy for you and your body image, because there’s so much to be learned there that really, you know. Again, there’s, we often think we are our body image, whatever it says, when in fact we’re really not. There’s a whole other language and story that’s going there, but it’s really important and we’re gonna miss it if we don’t lean in.

So, you know, we have what we call the three muscles where that one of them is mindful awareness, where we’re really having people just start to track that noticing. Oh, my body image is getting louder, and that’s really different to say, God, I look like crap in these pants. I should just wear sweatpants for the rest of my life.

It’s very different than, wow, my body image is really loud. I’m saying really nasty things about myself as I put my pants on. Those are really different, so that’s one of the muscles that’s like our core. You know, that’s where you start. It’s just tracking and noticing these ebbs and flows, and then we move into curiosity, so we have people really start to think about.

What’s happening? Like sort of what I said with Whitney and I back in the day, what’s happening in my life that might be kicking up my body image, it might be activating some of these parts of me because like you said, there’s a lot of, one of our subtitles is called the Hope and Self-Hate. There’s a reason that we, these part, you know, these thoughts get louder because in some way they think if they change us, we’ll feel differently.

So whether if I have this body part, I’ll feel, we call that inside curiosity. So it’s like what fantasy, if I had those legs, what would my body be like? And then we have outside curiosity, which is sort of what’s happening in my life that might be giving me the sense that I. There’s something wrong with me and if I fix it, it’ll be better.

So really delving into that. And then our, our last muscle is compassion, which is really like, oh my God, this makes so much sense. Not just, oh, this sucks, this is so hard to have this body image, language just be so cruel. But also, I. This makes so much sense that if there’s hope and hating myself, no wonder it gets loud.

Oh my gosh. That’s why there’s 20 pairs of pants on my floor and I’m crying. You know, like, there’s something really big happening here. It’s not just about my pants. Um, so, so we do a lot of that and we have that some what we call a rotary, which we actually have people map kind of where they are in that process and learning how to actually shift from just the self-hate into.

Mindful awareness, curiosity and compassion, and trying to really build those muscles just like, um, any muscle in the body. Um, and then we sort of build, build that out into all this relational stuff and really break down sort of what, what were our early mirrors. So in your story. Right. Okay. So if your mom was mentally ill, what, what beliefs did you have about who you needed to be.

To feel connected because at the end of the day, that’s our, all of our currency, right? So whatever that meant, and then really tracking that over time. So originally I learned to fill in the blank. How did that play out? How does that show out now? Who am I around and where does that get activated? You know, really tracking that relational piece.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then the last few chapters of the book are really looking at things like jealousy, really, like who are we jealous of and why? Really exploring that, which is really fun and interesting and not. Yeah, what people think. It will be like actually really digging in again, like if I had Jennifer Aniston’s arms, my life would be great.

So let’s talk about that. Right? All right. That there’s a life attached to those arms, so let’s learn about that. So we do jealousy, we talk about clothing. We have a whole chapter on clothing, which is super fun to write. Wild. Um, you know, ’cause again, I’ve had 30 years of stories about weddings and, you know, proms and, you know, so many feelings about clothing.

And then really ultimately, you know, where we wrap is this idea of, okay, now that you’ve learned all this, now that you know, all you’ve learned more about the ways that your body image is trying to help you instead of torture you. What do you really need? So when you’re around your mother-in-law or whatever, fill in the blank, you know, and she makes me feel really, you know, small and unimportant.

What do you need? Maybe it’s a phone call that you set up with your best friend after. Maybe it’s your favorite yoga class. You know, starting to figure out all the ways that body image is trying to help, and then how do we really resource. The parts of us that really need whatever our body image is desperately trying to help by thinking if we change our body, we’ll feel better.

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. 

Deb Schachter: So that was my, my summary of the book. 

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like so helpful and is, but is it, do you feel like by the end it’s something where you feel like your body image is cured or is it not something that you need to. 

Deb Schachter: Awesome question. It’s one of my favorites. So when we wrote, um, when we wrote the book or the, the publisher wanted us to do a subtitle, so we picked something like, um, I forget what it was originally, but they said the, he, you know how you heal body image.

And we were like, Uhuh, sorry, pal doesn’t work that way. Otherwise I would not have a job. Um, so what, you know, what we really believe is that it’s a practice. That again, we all have bodies and we all have feelings about them, so it’s much more about just like yoga practice or any yoga meditation. It’s, oh, my body image is getting louder.

What’s happening, you know, getting more skillful at practicing those other things. ’cause it’s going to, I mean, not only obviously because we live in this culture, but just because it’s part of how we’ve oriented ourselves and you know, even if people don’t have, you know, heavy duty eating disorders or terrible body image, they, you know, we’ve all kinds of anecdotes where people are just like, I can’t leave the house.

I can’t figure out what to wear. And it’s often because there’s something. Really, you know, emotionally charged that’s happening. And it could be, you know, we have a great story of a, a client of Whitney’s who was just going to a funeral of a friend’s, um, son. And it’s like, what do you wear when your friend has lost their child?

You know, like, of course it has nothing to do with what she wears, but somehow that became the thing. Like, do you, you know, it was just a good example of. Ways that life and how intense it can be can play out in these ways. So it’s all about just really, really continuing to cultivate that curiosity and to bring that more in the world with our kids, our clients, our loved ones.

Um, my husband, I always love it when he’s like, I think we call it Abin, which is a bad body image moment. That’s our, um, kind of short, short name for that, to just keep it really neutral. And, um, I love when he’ll be like, I think I’m having a bim, you know, which is obviously for him, just about like, not.

Finding the right pants for the presentation when he’s really nervous and you know, he’s put on some weight in the winter. But it’s great that then he is like, that’s what’s happening. Right. Instead of just hating on himself. Language 

Ruth Soukup: to talk about it. 

Deb Schachter: Exactly. Exactly. 

Ruth Soukup: Which is so, which is so important.

And I love that too, because it takes away the, the all or nothing thinking, which is so part of just that the whole, the whole problem right. Is 

Deb Schachter: right. E it either or. Exactly. 

Ruth Soukup: All or nothing. Hate 

Deb Schachter: yourself or fix yourself. And those are both impossible. 

Ruth Soukup: Exactly. Exactly. It’s all a journey. It’s all a process.

Yeah. And when you can take that like n need, like I’ve fallen off the wagon and now I’ve screwed up and now I Right. Might as well quit mentality away, then it allows you to keep going. Right? Then you just pick yourself up. You just, okay, let’s what’s happening right now? Exactly. This is not gonna be happening forever.

And I really 

Deb Schachter: Exactly. Exactly. And we talk so much about resonance. That’s really a big piece of the, of the resourcing is learning more about what our, um, one of my favorite quotes is, um, Mary Oliver that we have in there, which is Love your, um, love the soft animal body. Um, your soft animal body love what it loves.

So it’s really that idea, like when we are really. Listening to our body, it does have that wisdom. It does know when we wanna leave the party or quit the job or put on sweatpants, it knows what we need. And so learning more just to listen is, you know, and we’re not socialized around that, right? We’re, we’re socialized around so much hustle, hustle, culture and all of that.

So, um, yeah. So it’s just a different way to be in relationship with your body image. 

Ruth Soukup: I love that. So why do you think it, I mean, self-compassion is so. Difficult for people to like really just kind of allow your body to be right. To like be at peace with it. Yeah. Why do you think that’s so, that’s so hard.

Why are we so hard on ourselves as women 

Deb Schachter: and Yeah. I mean, I think it’s a great. I think it’s an awesome question. I mean, I think, you know, a, I think that we’re so oriented around, um, fixing, you know, we’re just really good at it. I think as women especially, that’s, you know, one of our strengths generally is, is, is seeing something, you know, finding the throughway through messes is, you know, is sort of, uh, I think a, you know, uh, um, say like a superhero skill kind of right.

Power superpower. Um, and I think. We’re given the message that if we do it well, we’re gonna, we’re going to feel better, we’re gonna be more connected, we’re going to be loved, we’re gonna be accepted. So I think it’s really hard to trust that if we really move through the world in more of our own alignment, that, you know, even though you and I know that that’s, those are the kind of people we wanna have around, that we’re gonna have the people who.

We really need around us and really show up whether that’s in the shape of our bodies or in how much we do or don’t do in our days. You know, really trusting that if we’re kind of the right size for us, whatever that means, um, if we show up authentically that, that we’re gonna. You know, that people are gonna really connect us and, and love us.

And so I think there’s a lot of practice there around that process of really. Mm-hmm. And it’s part of why we love the workshop so much is being in a room full of people that have all, um, as one of my clients once said, like, they’ve all been people pleasers and shapeshifters. They’ve all been so oriented around the other and sort of be together and just, I mean, I run a lot of groups too, and I just love them just talking about all of that stuff.

Yeah. Um, and then the only other thing I guess I. ADD is just that, you know, the irony is we’re told how we’re supposed to look, but we also feel a lot of shame about hating ourselves. Mm-hmm. Like, we’re sort of taught to hate ourselves, but we’re, we’re also not supposed to feel that. So it gets really Exactly.

So it’s really dicey. So we talk a lot in the book about really like. Having a lot of compassion for the shame because, um, you know, we think of, we always say body image. Um, negative body image happens in isolation and is healed in connection that so much of this happens in our own shadows. So it really is, is.

Very different again, to come forth and say, we’re all thinking these things. We’re all saying these things, we’re all worried about the same things. Mm-hmm. But how do we, you know, trust that there’s a reason why this is happening? So I think that can also really help remove some of the pathology that can get layered in there.

Like, oh, you hate yourself. You need to, again, you should love yourself. So like, there’s some really good reasons you don’t and, and how do we really help you learn how to. Do that in a more kind of aligned way instead of some kind of woowoo way that isn’t really addressing kind of where the hurt is. 

Ruth Soukup: I can see where that would be so powerful to be, to finally have the space to talk about it openly where, because there is I think, a lot of shame.

I think about even like my totally struggle with my weight and, and you know, I, on in front of the camera and, and doing all these things. I was writing books. Yeah. Running my business and not. Ever sharing anything about my weight and even though it was like an everyday thing, right? Totally. So uncomfortable and ashamed and, and all the stuff that I couldn’t talk about or couldn’t really share, and now I talk about it and obviously ’cause I’ve yeah, become a whole brand for me, but.

Uh, it’s, it was, it’s so freeing to be able to finally talk about like, no, I actually feel terrible about myself. It looked like I was doing great. Exactly. But I actually felt terrible about myself. And, and it’s so funny too when I think about what you said, like. All that time that I struggled, I wasn’t, it wasn’t until I was finally in alignment, until it finally wasn’t about just lose like the quick fix or losing the weight for me, where it was more about, okay, how am I gonna heal my body and how am I gonna nurture my body?

Totally. Where, where am I gonna go from here? And, and like that process was just so, so different. So are your. One day or are they like over an extended amount of time? 

Deb Schachter: Yeah, that’s a, that’s, that’s an awesome question. Um, so we, um, they are currently, one day we have a fantasy someday of doing more of like a, um, retreat.

A retreat somewhere. Yeah, that would be really fun. We’ve looked at a couple spaces. So what we’re really excited about, so we, we do do obviously workshops. We also are doing, this fall we’re doing a training, um, for clinicians, which we’re super excited about. So that’ll be for, I mean, we really want. Anyone to be their therapist, nutritionist, PTs.

I mean, we, we get so many requests from either folks that aren’t in the eating disorder or body image world or in the medical community that they’re, you know, my Pilates teacher, like, they’re all sort of saying, how do we address this when people talk about it, and how do we start to create new language?

So anyway, we’re doing a big training in the fall. One in person in Boston and then one virtually. Um, that’s all that stuff is on our website. And then we also do, um, we don’t have one on the calendar yet, but We’ll, you know, I’m sure we’ll be doing more workshops as well. Um, and hopefully we’re gonna also, now that we’re sort of out of the launch of the book, more trainings that people can also just like watch our shtick and kind of learn a little bit more and do their own version of it in their own time.

Ruth Soukup: That’s amazing. 

Deb Schachter: Yeah. So 

Ruth Soukup: anything else before we wrap up? Anything else we have to know that we didn’t cover? 

Deb Schachter: Um. I don’t, 

Ruth Soukup: I 

Deb Schachter: kind of went off 

Ruth Soukup: script. I told you I was going to. No, 

Deb Schachter: I’m so glad you did. And I feel like I did. I mean, I never know exactly what’s gonna come outta my mouth, but I’m, I’m glad I really, um, I wanted to talk about the muscles because I think sometimes people are like, oh my God, this is so layered and family and blah.

But that basic stuff, really learning how to start to track and notice your body image getting louder and quieter. And then develop, be practicing, just some curiosity about what else, what else is happening in my greater context, what, what might be, you know, triggering me. I think those are some really great places to start.

So I always just like to say to people like, the muscles are a great place to start. 

Ruth Soukup: I love that. And so sim, it’s so simple, and yet I don’t think, we always think about like how powerful it’s to just stop, pause, and pay attention. 

Deb Schachter: Yeah. 

Ruth Soukup: What’s going on right now? What’s going on? Right? And to remove 

Deb Schachter: the judgment, right?

Because it’s like, yeah, without judgment, I feel so, you know, I feel so disgusting, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Instead of like, wow. I, the way that Whitney describes, which I always love, is like, it’s like a newspaper reporter. Like you’re just giving a weather report. Body image is loud saying nasty things.

Great. Okay, let’s start there. That’s really good information. 

Ruth Soukup: I love that language. Just saying it’s really loud right now. Yeah, it’s really loud in here. Yeah. 

Deb Schachter: Yeah, exactly. There’s a lot of shadow going on. Yeah. I love it. 

Ruth Soukup: Well, thank you so much.

You can find Deb at bodyimageinsideout.com, or on Instagram, and can get the book, Body Image Inside Out, HERE.