How I’m Making “Passive” Income with 4 Rentals (Working 9-5!)

Ashley:
Today’s guest is living proof that you don’t need to be handy. Quit your nine to five or even live near your properties to build a profitable real estate portfolio.

Tony:
He started with a single rental, made plenty of mistakes along the way, but used systems and focus to grow his business all while working a full-time job and being there for his family.

Ashley:
Welcome to the Real Estate Rookie podcast where we help investors take action and get their first, second, or next deal. I’m Ashley Kehr.

Tony:
And I’m Tony j Robinson. And if you’ve ever thought, man, I’d love to invest between my job, my family, and everything else going on. I just don’t have the time. Then this episode is for you. Let’s give a big warm welcome to our guests, Mike Buske. Mike, thanks for joining us today, brother.

Mike:
Thanks for having me.

Ashley:
So Mike, your first property was a single family house in Warren, Michigan, which you’ve called your training wheels. How did you even find that deal while you were living in New Jersey and what made you feel confident enough to actually move forward?

Mike:
That deal was brought to me as kind of a pocket, I’m going to call it a pocket listing. Wasn’t really a pocket listing, but wasn’t, hadn’t hit the market yet, and it was through my agent at the time I, through BiggerPockets, found a local brokerage that kind of markets themselves as beyond investor friendly. They really seem to work like their bread and butter is working with investors, and that was far and away the biggest confidence boost because of just the level of detail they would give as far as breakdowns on deals and anything they’d ever send you. It was super detail oriented as far as the cashflow and the CapEx and the maintenance, and they would actually break it down like an investor would, not just like an agent saying, here’s a house, you do the work, and this deal was an off market deal and until one of their clients I guess was looking to sell soon and before they listed, he sent it my way and yeah, that’s how we got it.

Ashley:
What made you pick this market in particular

Mike:
Detroit? So I was looking, originally I knew New Jersey was not going to be where I wanted to invest just because the crazy high taxes, the purchase prices, I knew it would take me forever to build a portfolio here. So I was looking into turnkey originally, and a lot of the turnkey providers were in some of the same markets. You see a lot of Indianapolis and Huntsville, Alabama and stuff. But there was one I came across that was talking about Detroit and immediately put me in contact with a turnkey provider and a property manager out there who was just had more to say about the area and the revitalization that’s happening out there. And it just really impressed me. It was kind of shocking in comparison to the other markets I was doing homework on and really it was kind of that Warren Buffet be greedy when are fearful. I know a lot of people, they hear Detroit and they think war zone, but there’s a lot going on there and some crazy appreciation, some crazy growth. So I’m happy I jumped in.

Ashley:
Tony, who do you think of when you hear Detroit, Michigan and real estate investing?

Tony:
I think Ashley Hamilton.

Ashley:
Yep.

Tony:
Yeah, I know all that crushed it. Yeah, she’s crushed it out there. But I mean, Mike, kudos you, man, because this is your first deal and I just looked it up, 622 miles, almost a 10 hour difference between where you’re at in New Jersey and where this first property was in Michigan. What was the thing that gave you the confidence to say, I can do this from so far away? Because I think even if a Ricky investor can look at a market and say, man, there’s a lot of good things happening here. There’s still a lot of fear around like, man, but it’s so far. So how did you overcome almost 700 miles of distance to say, I think I can actually do this?

Mike:
Well, when I got into kind of analysis mode in the beginning when everybody’s digesting podcasts and books and stuff, one of the first books I came across was David Green’s Long Distance Investing, and he had one quote in there that hit me really hard where it was basically just for whatever reason, regardless of if you’re handy or not, but just if you’re not going to be the one doing the work on the property due to distance or ability, what does it matter if it’s across the street or if it’s a thousand miles away? And me personally not being super handy, I was like, well, that works for me and I might as well find a market that hits the right price to rent ratios and the right cashflow numbers and stuff rather than worrying about roofs and toilets and fixing stuff up. I wouldn’t be able to do the most of it anyway.

Tony:
You bring up such an important point, and I’m the same way. I’m not handy. I don’t fix things that are properties, and I think that’s almost a freeing feeling because it does open you up to all of the market options that are out there. But at the same time, when you decide not to invest in your backyard, it can also feel overwhelming because there are so many options. But at the same time, it also can kind of put you into that analysis paralysis because there are so many options of cities out there for you to choose from, right? 20,000 plus cities in the United States. But I think what I want rookies to understand and what you illustrated so beautifully with your story so far, Mike, is that the reality is that there’s not just one perfect city for you to invest in. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of cities that would make sense for you to invest in. So as a rookie investor, the goal should not be, let me find the one perfect city to invest into. The goal should be, let me find a city that matches what I’m looking for, and then you move forward with that one city. So Mike, I think you illustrated that point incredibly well, man, and kudos to you for taking action and moving forward.

Mike:
Yeah, yeah, appreciate it. And it’s even a lot of times you almost just need to find that hub, at least in my opinion. Detroit is that industrial hub, but if you look at the map is just outside of it, there’s what they call the ring cities surrounding that major metro area and all of them seem to lend themselves in one way or another toward profitable real estate investments. It’s just a matter of how close you want to get to a b plus a market. How comfortable you are with a C to D market depends what you’re after, but as long as you find a hub that kind of makes sense, it tends to be there’s multiple opportunities probably in every market. If you had to ask me,

Ashley:
Mike, when you were analyzing the deal on this property, was there anything that you learned or maybe you would’ve done differently? You did mention that this was a high appreciating market and did that have any kind of impact on you when you were running the numbers?

Mike:
When I originally ran them, no, but that’s what I would do differently. So at the time I was doing what I think a lot of people do and they look at Zillow and they go, okay, prior years taxes are X. That’s what I can anticipate it being when I buy this thing. And that’s how we run our numbers. What I didn’t realize was the whole limit on how much the government will raise taxes once it’s been owned for X amount of time and that once you sell a property that taxable rate will UNC cap and whatever the current state assessed value comes into play. I knew nothing about SUVs, I knew nothing about millage rates and the way you can do crazy analysis with taxes that I don’t think a lot of people do, especially in the beginning, but just for easy numbers or the realistic numbers, the taxes at the time that I was basing it off of was about 1760 a year.

Mike:
Once we closed, it turned out that due to that taxable event, it was actually going to jump to 3,700 a year. So my cashflow went from a projected like 3 0 5 a month to about 1 75. So that was a lesson learned that now I feel like I bother my agent more than I should. And I’m always like, are you sure about the taxes? Are we sure about the tax? I harp on that a lot because of that lesson. Luckily we walked into a good amount of equity on that one, so it kind of balanced out, but cashflow took a hit

Ashley:
For this market for near me. For example, when you close on a property, they can’t assess the taxes right at that time when or the sale goes through. There’s a reassessment every so often, whatever the town decides to actually do that. So was this in this county, was this every time the house would sell, they would reassess it for the taxes or just happen to have a reassessment done right after you closed?

Mike:
That’s a good question. I’m not positive if it was just I had lucky timing or if it was a little bit of both. From what I understand now that I’ve done a number of deals in that market and from my agent who’s doing, she’s closing six, seven deals a month. It seems like it’s every single time, at least in Wayne County, which is Detroit proper. Technically this house was in Macomb County, which is just outside of that, but more often than not now when we run the numbers, we run ’em as if they will be reassessed because of the sale every time,

Ashley:
Which really you should expect that in your numbers and that’s such a good point as to even though the property taxes are this now, what could they be in the future? And I think it’s getting harder and harder to actually gauge what your property taxes would increase to. I saw this was I think on Sunday a couple days ago, I was in the BiggerPockets forums. I saw four different posts that were posted within the last week of people talking about how drastically their property taxes have increased lately, and not everybody was in Florida either. There is market all over.

Mike:
I’ve heard that.

Ashley:
Yeah, but I think that’s something that as an investor we all need to get a better handle on for analyzing deals with. Using property taxes is like what is that worst case scenario? And usually worst case scenario is more focused on the worst case, what’s the lowest you can get in rent, but you also really need to figure what’s the highest you think or project those property taxes actually should go to, and it’s not super simple or easy. So what would be your recommendation, Mike, for somebody going forward? How are you kind of analyzing your deals now projecting that there will be a reassessment for the taxes?

Mike:
So now what I’ll do is I’ll always take a look at Zillow because generally the prior years are accurate, but I will no longer even make an offer until I go into the actual county assessor’s website, pull up the address there and look at what is the state assess value. And there’s usually depending, I think it’s all relatively the same, but you take the state assess value, you take the millage rate for that property and you do a little math and it will show you, okay, if you multiply this by this, that’s what your new value should be and the taxes will be a percentage of that. Everyone is obviously different, but if I don’t get that number because it’s always so much different than what the Zillow number was for the prior year. Now granted, the other thing too is if those numbers are so much drastically higher like people experienced in Florida generally, it’s also because of a lot of appreciation. So it’s not totally a negative. People freak out about, oh, my taxes went up. Taxes in my area in New Jersey are very, very, very high. I know Tony’s in California, they’re very high. Probably some of the highest land values in the country though, so is not entirely a bad thing, which is worth pointing out, but definitely worth doing your homework beforehand so you don’t end up in the red.

Ashley:
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Mike:
My number one thing would be dive into BiggerPockets, jump in the forums, look at whether it be out of state investing or long distance investing and go from there. If you have no idea you, I mean most people have a general idea whether it’s, oh, I want to be at least able to drive to this market or within X distance or something. I personally didn’t have that, but I know some people do and just find what makes sense for you find whether it’s something with landlord friendly rules as far as the politics in that state, whether it’s low tax area or a state with no income tax, find what you’re really looking for and use. I love the BP forums and the BP connections you can make to build a little bit of a network there and kind of start putting your team together on the ground in that market.

Tony:
Yeah, Mike, you, I love your advice of getting active in the forum because Ash and I both started our careers digging through the forms on BiggerPockets and I found BP because of the forms Googled something and the forum results popped up and that’s what led me down that rabbit hole. And the forms are almost, I mean it’s like the original Facebook group, but there’s, I dunno, a million members on BiggerPockets right now. So there’s so much older form threads you can go through and find and there’s still people in there active today, so if you guys are rookies, you’re not in there, definitely go do that. But Mike, you said that building a solid team was one of the most important lessons you learned early and you touched on this a little bit, but I guess who were the very first team members you connected with and how did you find them?

Mike:
I did go through BiggerPockets and that was probably just due to too many years of analysis paralysis and listening to the various BP between you guys, the regular BP Real Estate podcast and finding out about that. I went through there. I ended up looking and looking for a broker in the Detroit market and Joe Hamill’s name came up and I never worked directly with Joe but his team, they call it Fire Team Realty, like financially independent, retire early, it’s a Keller Williams derivative, but they are far and away my biggest key team player. They run numbers like no agency I’ve ever seen. They will send detailed BiggerPockets reports along with Excel sheet breakdowns of every single deal that they push out and anything I bring to them will get the same response. My agents, her name’s Jess Caldwell, I got a shout out Jess, she is phenomenal with this. She has incredible connections on the vendor side as far as contractors and anything I need from plumbers to roofers to title companies and stuff like that, but the way they run their deals gives anybody the kind of confidence I had to actually move forward.

Ashley:
Mike, were you able to find most of your team from referrals from your agent? Was there anybody that you had to go out and find yourself or did they kind of recommend everyone you needed?

Mike:
I would say the bulk of it, maybe like 70% comes from them and I did find some of my own people in the beginning, like my property manager I actually found on my own just doing a ton of Facebook group searching and Google review hunting and stuff like that. The majority though it seems like it’s only been two years, not even really, but every time I go back to their kind of preferred list or word of mouth through, especially through Jess, I’ve yet to miss with one of them. So I guess they say rock stars work with rock stars, so I’m happy with what I’m finding pretty much anytime they refer somebody.

Ashley:
What about your lender? Did you use a lender that was based in Detroit, a nationwide lender. And was that part of the referral system or did you have your financing lined up first?

Mike:
I’ve done both. So for the first deal I did do kind of a broad spectrum. I think it was, I don’t even remember the broker’s name, but it was a referral from the turnkey provider and then whoever that was ended up selling it off to Mr. Cooper. But now I do use a broker that I’ve used for two deals and I will be using, I’m closing next week on the triplex I mentioned in my previous video there. So he’s far and away been getting me the best interest rates. He’s extremely responsive. I’ve had twice where I’m tracking the interest rates and I get a text where it’s like, Hey, you’re not doing better than this. I locked you in. I know you’ve been asking. And he’s right. It ends up coming in like a quarter of a percent lower than anything I’d seen up until that point. So I’m very happy with them. Their closing costs are not crazy. They tend to beat almost everybody and the response rate alone is impressive.

Ashley:
Is this a broker where he’s shopping it out to different actual lenders or this is a small local bank you’re going to?

Mike:
It’s a broker, so it’s not, I’ve yet to dive into the local bank. I’ve heard nothing but the best about doing that, but this guy’s treated me so well and he’s got such a good relationship with the rest of the people on my team that I have yet to go a different direction.

Ashley:
I’m honestly just curious because I feel like there really is a divide that these are the two great ways to find a lender, go with a small local bank or credit union or go with a broker who’s out shopping your loan. We never get people that really ever come on and say they’re with a big huge national bank and got the best deal ever and their loan officer and call them and talk to them and blah, blah blah. So yeah, I was just curious your input on that and because I think those are two of the really best options that local broker or a small community bank.

Mike:
I would say from what I’ve heard in this market particularly, there’s one or two people they seem to recommend consistently and pretty much the deal is if you want to really not have any fear about your appraisal, if you want the ability to do maybe put a HELOC on something that not every lender would do or pull out lines of credit or borrow against the equity, obviously that local bank will probably be your best bet. But as far as efficiency, just saving time and getting a solid rate, I lean toward Chris and the broker side and being so far away and being so busy with my W2 and I got my wife and my daughter and everything else here, I’m okay with that as of right now. Maybe when I start reevaluating the whole portfolio, we’ll move to local banks, but I’m good with it.

Tony:
So Mike, one of the other people that you mentioned that were an important part of your team was your property manager. I guess first, why did you choose property management? Some people say like, Hey, I can do this myself. What was it about the idea of property management that made it attractive for you?

Mike:
So first of all, from a distance, I had no desire at all that I just felt like there’s no way. And to keep it a little bit more passive, I had to find somebody. I looked into a few of the referrals that had been, whether it be Facebook posts, BiggerPockets from my agent and Google, this is one that I ended up going separately and kind of picking my own just because of the interview process and I think I asked the standard questions. A lot of people ask property manager it’s do you invest yourself? How long have you been in business? What do you know about this market, this thing, what kind of assets are you generally, how many assets do you have under management? What do you work with primarily, stuff like that. A lot of the people that I interviewed had a very corporate, very high level response to a lot of the questions. It was kind of like, well, we manage the area, we do have a little bit of everything. It was never the kind of, you didn’t get that hometown feel that I got out of this guy who still had a 20 year track record. He was a local investor, he knew and he could very easily mention things like street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, and I just felt more confident in that. Plus he had good Google reviews, so I went that way and so far I’ve been happy.

Tony:
Mike, what’s one specific question that you ask a property manager or even a contractor now that you didn’t know to ask when you first got started?

Mike:
As silly as it sounds, I was warned by a few people that just people, they will not buy a house with a giant tree on the front lawn and I never asked why and now because of a $5,000 cracked sewer line, I know why I wish I would’ve dove into that a little bit more. I wish I would’ve asked my PM if they have a lot of their properties insured for that sewer line waterline. Now I do do that because the $7 a month I pay would’ve saved me like $4,900. So that’s definitely the thing that stands out.

Ashley:
Mike, when you decided to invest, did you have a set amount of reserves set aside for a circumstance like this? What would be your advice to a rookie investor that’s got money saved for a down payment? How much should they have in cash reserves in case this same thing happened to them and they had to work over $4,900?

Mike:
My rule of thumb, whether it be via my HELOC currently or when I was just using my own savings account, I like to have between 10 and 15,000 per property set aside just because it’s the individual residential properties at this point. That said, I guess everything can vary depending on when I got started, even just two years ago to now, my income level’s different by a pretty significant amount. If somebody’s making $50,000 versus $500,000, it’s going to be a very different thing where I guess as long as you’re not living wildly outside your means, maybe you don’t need as many reserves because you got big paychecks. But my rule of thumb is at least 10,000 if not 15,000 just because anything that could go wrong that you didn’t see already in the inspection, odds are that’ll cover the bulk of it, at least within the year. The odds of your roof collapsing, your hot water tank going and your HVAC shooting craps all in the same year is, I don’t know. I think you got pretty bad luck there if that happens,

Ashley:
If anyone listening, if you’re doing the same as Mike for reserves or you have a different take on how much you should have in reserves or how to protect yourself or maybe it is just using your W2 income, if something comes up, let us know in the comments on YouTube, we would love to hear your opinion, your advice on this.

Tony:
Now Mike, you said yourself earlier that you’re not very handy. I guess how did you get over that fear of not being able to fix things yourself? Because I think a lot of Ricky’s have this misconception that I’m not an investor if I don’t DIY my projects. How did you get over that fear for yourself?

Mike:
The more I read specifically or to podcasts specifically in the niche of long distance investing, the more I was hearing, well, what issue did you encounter? How did you overcome it? Whether it be a busted sewer line like I said, or a roofing thing or a tenant issue. And the majority of the issues when you listen to the high level guys who have a lot of doors or have a lot of experience tends to never be that. And I was like, well, if I’m buying out of state and I could almost not jump that DIY stage but not have to deal with that component as another thing looming versus worry about the numbers, worry about the teams, worry about the systems and then worry about scale once you have the other taken care of. I think I heard Dan Martell maybe who was saying the most successful entrepreneurs work on their business, not in their business, and if you’re too busy fixing toilets, it’s not going to be as easy to scale and raise private money or whatever avenue you’re trying to pursue to grow. And that was kind of the driving force behind it, beyond my ineptitude with a hammer.

Ashley:
That’s funny you say that because in our business, Daryl does most of the maintenance and I do the computer stuff as he says, and last night he got out his computer that wiped off the dust and he’s like, I want you to teach me to computer. What can I do on my computer? So when we go on trips and we go places I can do work and not just have to be at the property. And I started laughing and it’s so true when you do become the maintenance person doing all those repairs, things like that, you only get your work done when you’re physically at the property and that’s your time, your time gone. So just that conversation last night was a big mental shift for him too is to, I need to get out of doing some of that maintenance stuff and get, what can I be doing that’s useful that’s on the computer, but I’m not sure how useful he will be when he’s telling me, teach me how to computer I guess. And that kind of leads us into the next thing I want to talk about are the systems. So even though you’re not doing the day-to-day stuff, there’s asset management, there’s the acquisition piece of getting properties. So what’s a system or systems you have set up that have saved you a lot of time and stress?

Mike:
So at my stage, which is really only four deals at this point are definitely different than someone who might have 20 or a hundred or whatever. But the one thing that seems to be my biggest pain point is bookkeeping and just keeping track of the bills and the finances and all that stuff, especially once you have more than one property. And the short-term rental that I have, that adds to it a lot because a lot more there. That said for me it’s Excel sheets and I just have designated sheet that has everything broken down by property. Every bill that needs to be paid as many of them as humanly possible are set to autopay and paperless billing. And the beginning, the first week of every month, I just hit that sheet and I go right down the line, make sure everything’s covered there. Once that’s done, I have an attached sheet that is my monthly income expenses report that I create and I send it to my CPA at the end of the year.

Mike:
So it’s kind of a one-two punch and that way it probably only takes me 15 minutes if that to do all the bills and check everything for the week, another 20 to put it all in. And that’s once a month. And it was a lot more difficult when I had paper mail coming and I’d open this and it would come different weeks and I had to try to keep track and I never had it all set in one place and I’d eventually miss an electric bill or something like that. But just keeping the bookkeeping clean is probably, from what I’ve heard, a common rookie mistake and I made the same one. So that saves me a lot of time having it all consolidated.

Tony:
Mike, I feel like we hear bookkeeping is the pain point for so many new investors. And I know for me even early on that was the thing that I hated the most about real estate investing was just managing the books. And we used ESA when we first started just going into ESA and tagging everything and it was like the most mundane part of real estate investing for me. But as I’ve matured as a real estate investor, I think I’ve grown to really appreciate good bookkeeping because you really start to be able to see trends in your business and you can start to really identify, hold on, something’s not right there. And as you build more discipline around reviewing your p and ls, you can start to see like, man, something’s off. And I’ll give you guys a prime example. I was reviewing my p and ls, I think it was last month, maybe the month before, and I noticed it for one of our properties.

Tony:
Our cleaning expenses were exceeding our cleaning income. And I was like, that’s not how it should be. We always charge more to our guests when we pay our cleaners, what’s going on there? So anyway, after some digging, I found out that our cleaners had raised our rates on one of our properties, but we never went back to the listing to increase the rates there and we got this negative balance. So there’s so much value in really running your business effectively if you can take the time A to make sure your books are clean. But then B, having the process in place to go back and review those. I guess. Mike, from the properties that you have, have you had any actionable decisions come out of having a good set of clean books?

Mike:
Actually, yeah, you should. And I know you are big into the STR space and that’s the one that really kind of taught me the lessons more than anything just because there is so many little, I have to pay the utilities there versus my long-term rentals. I have to pay maintenance for not just the cleaning but also the hot tub and stuff. And the thing that kind of made that apparent to me was we bought a house that needed a good amount of renovation as well as the furnishing. It didn’t have a tub to begin with, it didn’t have an exterior space, so we kind of piecemealed that and every month my owner’s statement because of the different maintenance changes would be different. This is your cleaning fee in February and then come March we added the hot tub. So now there’s a different thing there and I noticed like, oh well this is getting to be quite a bit if we do X amount per month for just the hot tub maintenance and we ended up pivoting going directly to the cleaner versus keeping it in-house. So that is one thing that I very slightly manage on my own, but it’s again, once you have the system set up, whether it’s be them connected to your schedule or your bookings or what have you, it’s a little bit of front end work that saves you a lot of time on the backend and usually will save you money as well.

Ashley:
So Mike has built his team and his systems, but what about actually scaling and building a portfolio after the break? We’ll talk about how Mike moved his first single family into multifamily and why he believes cashflow isn’t everything. We’ll be right back.

Tony:
Alright guys, we’re back here with Mike and now we’re diving into how he scaled his portfolio and why his mindset about cashflow and equity has evolved. So Mike, you mentioned this before the break, but you added a short-term rental and I believe it’s in the Poconos and then a duplex and a triplex in Detroit. What made you decide to scale into small multifamily?

Mike:
Small multifamily was basically just I saw the power of getting more income out of less roofs and less hot water tanks and less et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Mainly roofs I guess because there should be multiple furnaces and stuff if you have a real big multifamily. But I saw how you could scale and then leverage some of those assets a little bit better than a single family home and it was appealing. So I went with it. Short-term rental route was purely because of a connection I had with a mastermind group, kind of a networking group that I joined and they had a really great team out in the Pocono Mountains that they clearly are a players in that market. They have the best listings in that market. The management’s very good. I saw the potential for the cashflow there, but also an asset that I could actually visit and if nothing else, get eyes on if need be. So I took a plunge with that. That was actually my second deal.

Ashley:
So what was different between the short-term rental operation and maybe the asset management of your long-term rentals that you kind of had to adapt to

Mike:
After taking the plunge on the short-term rental? I think I’ve learned that that may or may not really be for me. I might go back in that direction in the future, but it’s definitely more hands-on. Even with a property manager, there’s just a lot more purchases and bills and utility. It’s just a little bit of extra, like we said, bookkeeping. And compared to my long terms that once you have the systems in place, once it’s fully rented, it’s really pretty plug and play unless an issue arises. I do do an annual kind of inspection of my long-term properties through my contractor just to make sure everything’s going to be up to code for our city inspection the following year. But beyond that, in theory, I shouldn’t have to pick up the phone and there’s not a lot of bills to pay with the long-term, the short-term, a little bit more reward, but definitely more work.

Ashley:
What’s the cashflow difference though? Is it usually everyone says the short-term rental is worth it because it makes so much more. What would you say in your opinion?

Mike:
My market is extremely seasonal. So for example, a good long-term rental in the southeast Michigan market, you’re looking at maybe two to $300 a cashflow per door per month, I should say per door. Last month for May, I should say for the short term rental, we walked away with 2,400 in cashflow. So eight x, which is fantastic. The only problem is the fall and the spring, if you’re lucky, if you’re breakeven, you tend to be a little bit in the red and hopefully not too far in the red. So you really make the bulk of your money in the summer and the winter because there’s a lot of ski resorts, there’s water parks, there’s a raceway racetrack up there where they do nascar. So it depends if you’re okay with the volatility in the long run, it probably breaks out to about five to $600 a month, maybe a little bit more if you have a good year. But it’s still nearly double what a normal door in southeast Michigan would give you.

Tony:
And as you talk about cashflow, Mike, I mean you say now that maybe cashflow isn’t the end all be all of a good deal. So what other things are you looking at now to evaluate the merits of, hey, this is a good deal or this isn’t a good deal,

Mike:
Forced equity all the way? I’m not so far a believer in the point where I would buy something that doesn’t cashflow otherwise I’d probably buy in New Jersey because the appreciation’s great here, but you’re in the red no matter what. But that said, what I love about my market in Southeast Detroit is you can find things that you can at least be breakeven while doing work, doing rehab to these properties and forcing almost every penny you put into it is going to be forced equity if it’s in the right condition. My duplex is a good example. We bought that for 107,000 and it needs a lot of work. It needs a new roof. The whole downstairs unit needs a total overhaul all in. We’re probably going to be like a $40,000 rehab on that. But the comps once fixed up are in the 1 70, 180 if not 200 range. So you’re getting a hundred percent ROI on the renovations. And meanwhile, I have tenants in there that are actually keeping me in the green while we do it. So it’s kind of a win-win. But as far as the actual take home at the end of the year, if I can force $50,000 of equity through that process, you’re never going to make that in cashflow in one year. It’s going to take a long time to match that.

Ashley:
Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate you taking the time to talk to our listeners, talk to us and share your story and to give great advice. Where can people connect with you and find out more information about what you’re doing?

Mike:
Instagram would be the best bet. I have a designated a little real estate page that I’m slowly building up. It’s called yonder, REI like yonder long distance, so Y-O-N-D-E-R-R-E-I would be the tag on Instagram.

Ashley:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much again, we really appreciate it. I’m Ashley, he’s Tony, and thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. We’ll see you guys next time.