On this episode of the Eyes on Jesus podcast, we dive into an examination of church traits projected to disrupt the church in 2024. We particularly talk about the diminishing presence of ‘secure church buildings’, the rising presence of millennials, the incoming affect of Technology Z, and the growing significance of digital elements in discipleship. We emphasize the necessity for church buildings to adapt to those traits, have interaction with youthful generations, and make the most of digital media for discipleship. You’ll want to verify again subsequent episode for the second half!
For the weblog we reference from Carey Nieuwhof go to https://careynieuwhof.com/church-trends-2024/
Under is the transcript from the present, it will not be fully precisely translated
For the video episode of the present, go to https://youtu.be/Ui-_uhlSi5M?si=dLz4yXLWwT3NEvMA
You could find the Eyes on Jesus Podcast with Drew and Tim on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
Episode 35- 7 church traits half 1
[00:00:00] Tim: Properly, welcome to the eyes on Jesus podcast with Drew and Tim. We’re so excited to be with you right now. Now we have an thrilling subject for you, a two parter. So yeah, we encourage you to take heed to right now, ask questions, give us your feedback, however we’re going to dive into an thrilling subject for traits for this yr for church buildings.
And we’ll discuss extra about that. However earlier than we do Drew, how are you doing right now? Good to see you.
[00:00:24] Drew: Good to see you and good to catch again up with you after the vacations. I’m doing effectively. It’s a chilly however sunny day right here in North Carolina. What’s it like in Arizona?
[00:00:35] Tim: Proper now we’re like at 70 flat, so
[00:00:38] Drew: it’s fairly good.
Yeah. 70 and it’s sunny. Chilly days
[00:00:42] Tim: of 50s, however now we’re again within the 70s. Chilly
[00:00:44] Drew: days of 50s. Yeah, so it’s 50s, so 50s the excessive right now. And this weekend, you recognize, we’re speaking about church traits this weekend, it’s going to be like 19 levels. When Sunday service occurs. And so we’re going to have some sizzling chocolate for folks as a result of the church development could be to get up, discover out it’s chilly outdoors and never come to church.
So we’re going to, we’re going to get that. We’re going to get that prepared.
[00:01:09] Tim: There’s loads of occasions it closed down this previous weekend due to the snow in Texas and everywhere. After which I noticed a video of the, what was it, the, one of many video games, the payments recreation or one thing with the household, like pushing by way of like these, you recognize, thick snow within the seats.
And I shared that and I used to be like, man, I want Christians have been extra, you recognize, that keen to return to church because the followers have been. Proper. All these feedback are like, Oh, you don’t want church. And I is usually a Christian and never go to church. In order that led to some attention-grabbing conversations, however
[00:01:41] Drew: I’m positive. Yeah. I by no means have understood what folks can push previous for issues that.
In the end will likely be irrelevant, however that’s one other, possibly we might try this as a podcast episode someday right now we’re speaking about one thing actually cool. We’re speaking about, such as you mentioned, church traits and I’m actually wanting ahead to moving into this as a result of I’m curious as to what you’re seeing and curious as to.
Not simply what’s occurring at your church, however what you’re seeing, you recognize, globally right here. And are we like in alignment with the place church goes? Am I seeing belongings you’re not seeing? You’re seeing issues I’m not seeing? Does this text see issues that possibly we have to get a transfer on? So yeah I’m fairly pumped about our dialog.
[00:02:24] Tim: Inform us about your cat allergy.
[00:02:27] Drew: Oh, yeah. So I simply did point out that. So your cat got here within the room and I advised you about my cat. So final Sunday. That is nice. Final Sunday, I received achieved with with the second service and you recognize, like I do I’m hugging folks, you recognize, giving fives to folks, shaking palms, kissing infants, all that enjoyable stuff, proper?
So I get to the again and begin speaking with this younger girl and she or he says, What’s up together with your eye? And I used to be like, effectively, what? She goes, what’s up together with your eye? And I used to be like, I don’t know what’s up with my eye? She was like, it’s actually crimson. I used to be like, oh, geez. And I turned and checked out any person else and so they have been like, gosh.
They have been like, go, your eye is so crimson. I used to be like, okay, maintain on. I’m gonna depart. So I used to be, in my thoughts, I’m like, did I simply do a sermon and stand in entrance of everyone with like an enormous eye? I used to be like, what are we doing? So I ran to the restroom, seemed within the mirror, and dude, like, watering, and as crimson as will be, swollen beneath, after which, like, my tongue began swelling up, and I began feeling like an itchy throat, and I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m having an allergic response to one thing.
For the lifetime of me, we couldn’t determine what the allergic response might have been to. Like, was it a fragrance that any person was sporting? No matter, proper? So I’m sitting now on the toilet flooring with a washcloth round my neck as a result of I feel I’m going to cross out. That’s the extent I received to. And out of my eye, I pull out a cat
I hugged somebody who owns cats, and it was on their garments, and one way or the other, I’m a brief dude, so after I go in for the hug, typically I’m solely shoulder degree, one way or the other, a cat hair received actually in my eyeball. And I swear to you, I about, like, blacked out, like, I, I about light. It put, this little cat hair put me on my butt so quick, and it was such an ideal reminder of.
How robust I feel I’m, however finally how weak I will be. And yeah, like volunteers needed to come and assist me get up, like had to assist me get to my automotive. I had to verify I used to be good to drive, like all these items. It was a, it was an ordeal. It was actually not one thing that I wish to do once more. However yeah, like dude cat like I can’t do the cat factor.
I can’t do it. So at any time when any person says hey Drew do you wish to come over? Do you wish to do dinner? Do you wish to hang around one thing like that? I’ve two questions. The primary one is do you personal a cat after which the second is what are you making? That’s it. That’s the way it works. So so yeah, that’s my cat story.
However in any case
[00:05:14] Tim: That’ll humble you just a little, just a little hair. will simply take you down just a little hair on the fitness center and begin like sniffing some cat hair just a little by little and develop to the purpose the place you may take one within the eye and never let it take you.
[00:05:27] Drew: No, I need nothing to do. No, I need nothing to do
Yeah, nothing to do with it. Routine. No.
[00:05:34] Tim: We received away to Colorado after Christmas and it was lovely. We went to little city known as Silverton. It was a 600 individual city. Prefer it was simply tremendous small and surrounded by these mountains lined in snow. Little ski resort city. And the difficult half was that there’s these passes to get there, like one developing from Durango, that’s an hour and one developing from Telluride on the opposite finish, that’s an hour.
And these, this cross was like sheer cliff, icy cliff, no guardrails driving by way of. And fortunately there wasn’t like a blizzard as a result of they will shut down these roads. And when you’re within the city. Like my thoughts is sort of a planner and typically fearful and I’m like, there’s no hospital on this city.
There’s no automotive restore place. Like if we get caught or if we have now to, if we meet, have an emergency, we get to drive an hour by way of the cross to Durango in the course of the night time. Proper. So anyway, other than all that, it was very lovely. Really helpful. It’s like a kind of cities you have a look at it. Appears prefer it belongs like in a trademark film or in a postcard.
Yeah. I noticed your
[00:06:37] Drew: footage, man. And a few of your movies seemed lovely.
[00:06:40] Tim: Yeah. After which we went over to 4 corners and stood in 4 States on the identical time. And that was attention-grabbing, but in addition a really fast and it’s important to pay to do it. And I drove to pay to go stand someplace. Yeah. To face in the course of a circle and say, Hey, I’m in 4 States directly.
Now I’m going to depart. And I drove up and it’s like 8. And I’m like, effectively, okay, no matter I stand up to pay. And so they’re like, what number of in your automotive is like 4? And so they’re like, okay, that’ll be 32. Oh my goodness. Like I used to be okay with paying 8 for the automotive, however I’m not okay paying 30 for it to actually stroll up like 5 minutes after which stroll away.
[00:07:19] Drew: yeah, I’m all set on that.
[00:07:20] Tim: Can say I did it, however that’s what you may count on in case you are fascinated by going to 4 corners. So what we’re speaking about right now comes from Carey Newhoff’s weblog and he truly does this yearly. I’ve not likely adopted it different years, however he has hyperlinks to the weblog.
We’ll put a hyperlink within the present notes. He has a hyperlink to all of the church traits yearly. He sort of comes out with these are the traits he’s seeing. And the title is seven church traits that may disrupt 2024. So these aren’t identical to, you recognize, Church goes to develop. The church goes to learn the Bible.
The church goes to evangelise about Jesus. Like, clearly issues are going to nonetheless occur which have occurred, however these are disrupting traits which might be going to happen in 2024 supposedly. And so, in need of having Carey on the podcast, which, Hey, if you happen to’re listening, you’re welcome. Anytime to return on.
Completely. I like his podcast. It talks to church leaders and It’s actually, it actually one in every of like my high 5 that I listened to persistently. And so he has folks on throughout the month of January speaking about these traits. And so I believed, Hey, why don’t we speak about these traits? Since nobody requested us, we’ll provide you with our opinion on them.
And So we’re going to do a two parter finish of half two, we’re going to share our ideas on some traits that we’re seeing. And so keep tuned for that as effectively, however any ideas earlier than we kick these off?
[00:08:33] Drew: No I’m able to dive in. Let’s hit the primary one.
[00:08:36] Tim: All proper. First one.
[00:08:37] Drew: So he mentions the secure church has turn into an endangered species.
Now, what he’s chatting with right here is. Often, if a church is like plateauing, staying constant that may be an excellent signal. In reality, there’s many church buildings that’s their story. They run, I imply, many of the occasions that I’ve seen it, they run 70 to 150 and yearly they lose 10 or 12 folks and so they acquire 10 or 12 folks.
The following yr rolls round, they lose 8 or 9 folks, they acquire 8 or 9 folks. And so all of the payments are being paid, persons are being blessed, communities being impacted. So we’re all set. We’re all good. And what Carey’s saying right here is that. Is an endangered species and finally goes to shift to that sort of church goes to lose floor.
And so church buildings in 2024, they’re both rising or they’re declining. And it sounds to me primarily based on what he wrote right here, there’s actually no in between.
[00:09:46] Tim: Yeah, it’s not simply enterprise as regular for church buildings. You’re both in a state of. incline or a state of decline. And one in every of his stats is 54 % of church buildings are in average or vital decline.
And which means over half of American church buildings, the writing’s on the wall. So if you happen to’re within the decline section like what would you do if you happen to’re, if you happen to’re reducing by that a lot, both reasonably or considerably as a church chief, what do you do?
[00:10:13] Drew: Properly, I imply, if you happen to, Actually seen decline, then it’s important to ask your self, and these are arduous inquiries to ask your self as a pacesetter, but it surely has to begin with you, proper? Such as you’re the chief of the church. So the primary query’s gotta be to your self and it’s essential ask your self if like, you’re the man at that specific place.
To guide the change so the change is inevitable if persons are leaving then it’s like, okay One thing’s received to alter you bought to begin with your self. Am I the man? Proper to steer that change. Am I going to be the most effective one to do this if the reply is sure Properly, then cool, then you definitely received an ideal information Now it’s important to determine what the suitable change is and get that rolling And so I feel that’s the place I’d begin totally different church buildings are going to have totally different solutions However yeah, that’s the place I’d begin.
What about you? What do you suppose is essential to suppose by way of in that?
[00:11:10] Tim: I feel, yeah. Assessing your self first and never simply blaming no matter, however like simply. Do some actually inward wanting ideas on what’s occurring and is it associated to you? And have you ever modified over time? Trigger if you happen to’ve been at a spot for too lengthy, you may simply get complacent.
And I like Craig Groeschel has a management podcast. He talked about choice makers. What do choice makers do? And one of many issues that I’ve been fascinated by for some time now, for the reason that podcast got here out a couple of weeks in the past, is that what, Is to ask your self, what would another person do if that they had your place tomorrow?
What would another person, what would an excellent chief do in the event that they took over your place tomorrow? What would they do? And so I used to be pondering like, what, you recognize, Craig Groeschel, if he comes into my church and leads it. What would he do tomorrow that he would are available in and be like, why the heck are you guys doing this?
And that’s a great way to simply take into consideration, you recognize, and I all the time inform my staff at church, you recognize, to all the time ask, why can we do what we do? Is it as a result of we’ve all the time achieved it? Is it as a result of we’ve simply That is simply what we do for 10 years now. However does it truly make sense? Does it truly make sense for the place we’re at as a church and the imaginative and prescient that we’re going into have these robust conversations.
And so if which means it’s essential cancel a program that’s been happening for a decade, then that’s what you do. You could rent somebody. Somebody that, you recognize, somebody’s doing the job of three folks. And if it’s essential rent any person and he’s like, effectively, we don’t find the money for it. Properly, you higher get the funds otherwise you’re going to burn that individual out otherwise you’re not going to have these applications anymore.
And so when you concentrate on if another person takes over your job tomorrow, if another person was the husband in your loved ones, if another person was the CEO of your job, like what would they do in a different way in the event that they took over tomorrow, if that individual’s a powerful chief. And I used to be additionally speaking to a church chief as effectively lately.
And he was transferring on from the church and I used to be asking him like, Hey, you recognize, there’s development. This church is like going the place you I’ve sort of imaginative and prescient to it. And he introduced up that he’s sort of like Moses, like he introduced it to some extent, however he can’t take it into the promised land.
Yeah. And for him to have the ability to say that and have that consciousness of his talents was a daring transfer was one thing to be lauded. And so I feel when, in case your church is declining to actually assess first what are we doing? What are we doing fallacious? What are we doing that possibly we did with some veracity 5 years in the past, however that’s sort of died off.
After which after that, if you happen to’ve achieved that, then you can begin to evaluate just like the tradition, the world you’re within the applications, the general deconversion of. America. I imply, there’s loads of societal traits that may begin to have an effect on church buildings which might be declining.
[00:13:51] Drew: I’ll say this. One factor I’m inspired by is the secure church changing into an endangered species to me implies that relationships are going to be essential as a result of like a relationship is all the time transferring ahead or backwards.
It’s not identical to, oh yeah, no, like we’re simply right here. Like if you happen to’re pursuing, you’re both pursuing somebody otherwise you’re not pursuing them. Yeah. And so I, what this tells me is that. Like, persons are going to begin having wants for true, genuine group and relationship, and in the event that they’re not getting that, they’re going to depart.
So there is no such thing as a, like, coming and sticking round and sticking it out to see if, you recognize, ultimately this can all work out. It’s like, no, like, it’s sort of the uh, Tinder fashion of the relationship world. It’s like, we’re going to swipe left. Or swipe proper and also you’re both the church otherwise you’re not And which means for us like each sunday and all the things we put out on social media and all the things we do Not saying that it’s essential have a spirit of excellence However you do must have a spirit of like this could possibly be the tinder profile This could possibly be the swipe left swipe, proper?
This could possibly be the choice maker that any person has and on the identical time prefer it ought to put some weight To what we do. Yeah. So, and you recognize, I’m inspired. I imply, personally, I’m inspired by it sort of scares me just a little bit to making an attempt to develop a church and there’s a pair Sundays over Sunday that you just don’t see development and also you’re questioning, Oh man, am I declining?
However finally, like our function as leaders is to forged imaginative and prescient. And as soon as we’ve topped one mountain, we level to the subsequent mountain. So, you recognize, that is going to require nice leaders and church buildings that don’t have nice leaders are in all probability going to be within the decline.
[00:15:48] Tim: And it actually relies upon, like I mentioned, loads of the place you’re at.
Like if you happen to’re in a liberal metropolis that’s quickly declining, then you definitely actually should have totally different objectives in your church. Such as you’re going to be extra evangelistic in nature. Perhaps you’re going to get out into the town and serve extra as an alternative of identical to, Hey, we have now a constructing. Why aren’t you exhibiting up?
Proper. There’s part of understanding the place you’re at and never anticipating simply folks to cater to you due to the. stigma that church has in lots of people’s minds proper now. And in order that’s why there’s a de churching, however that’s additionally why the church must step up. And loads of church development that’s labeled is actually because you’re stealing from different church buildings, proper?
Like, a church simply closed and like, Hey we simply gained 30 folks. Properly, these have been already Christians. That’s not the good fee of changing folks to Christ. So
[00:16:32] Drew: we’ve received about 300 % this yr,
[00:16:36] Tim: however two church buildings closed down. And so that you simply soak up them. However you recognize, in case you are declining, like have a look at different church buildings, like play properly, however the church buildings in your space, possibly you may have a partnership.
Perhaps you may pull your sources collectively and have one church. If you happen to’re each declining, like that’s not a nasty technique. Prefer it’s virtually like. Partnership could be nice. Nearly like, yeah, constructing the dominion collectively. And one in every of, one half in right here too, that Carey mentioned is that many are merely transferring from dying church buildings to vibrant church buildings.
And so, yeah, if you happen to stroll right into a service and it seems lifeless and folks aren’t greeting and folks aren’t loving and folks aren’t even clapping their palms and elevating their palms and worship is simply going by way of the motions and folks depart. What’s going to maintain, what’s going to deliver an 18 yr previous who’s searching for solutions for all times, what’s going to deliver them to your church?
[00:17:24] Drew: Yeah, lifeless religion just isn’t engaging. Yeah, there’s nothing engaging a few lifeless spirit, lifeless religion. And so, you recognize, our function is to be pushed. And our function is to you recognize, whether or not we’re within the ready or whether or not we’ve been advised what’s subsequent, our job is to worship with all of that we have now. And be the sunshine of the world, be the salt of the earth.
And if we’re not in a position to collect collectively. And get previous espresso and donuts, it’s going to be a troublesome time to actually excite folks about something.
[00:18:00] Tim: Cool. Quantity two, traits that may disrupt 2024. Millennials are the brand new core of your church. So one in every of them. Now, are you a millennial? Yeah. Oh, it’s technically.
Yeah, I feel the cutoffs 81 and I used to be born in 80. So is that the cutoff? I’ve to look it up actual fast.
[00:18:17] Drew: I don’t know. I, relying on the place you look. Decides if I’m a millennial or not. So I used to be born in 1986. And my spouse was born in an earlier yr and she or he’s in, she says she’s not a millennial, however I’m.
[00:18:36] Tim: Yeah. I’m technically Gen X. Millennials are 81 to 96. So millennials have embraced church attendance quicker than another demographics surpassing their attendance ranges again in 2019. So millennial attendance is surging, particularly amongst non white millennials. In response to a Barna survey, 30 % of white millennials report attending church often put up 2020 up from 26 % pre pandemic, however non white millennials have returned with even better zeal totally 40 % of non white millennials say they’re attending church put up COVID up from 31 % pre pandemic.
In order that’s an excellent development. I imply,
[00:19:15] Drew: you recognize, we’re doing all the things we are able to right here
because the spokesperson for millennials, we’re doing all the things we are able to.
[00:19:23] Tim: Sure. What brings you to church, Drew? Such as you characterize all of the millennials. So.
[00:19:29] Drew: Yeah and actually, like if you happen to have a look at our church, we’re filled with millennials. We, actually, we’re not solely filled with millennials, however 30 % of our congregation is beneath the age of 25 proper now.
So we’re additionally very a lot gen, is it gen, it’s Gen Z is the subsequent one, proper? Yeah, so like we’re, yeah, so we’re very a lot filled with that as effectively. However yeah, I imply, this simply implies that because of this issues are totally different in terms of the way you talk means issues are totally different in terms of know-how and we’ll speak about that in just a little bit and and issues are totally different with the way you talk.
Exterior of Sunday. And to be actual with you, like, you recognize, the millennial habits. Okay. I’m a part of the millennial habits. The millennial habits is something we have a look at. We predict that there’s a greater option to do it. Simply being actual. I can stroll right into a restaurant having by no means owned a restaurant.
And I feel I do know one of the best ways to run that restaurant. I don’t. Now the distinction is I preserve my mouth shut. A few of the extra well-known millennials. Don’t and in order that’s how, you recognize, we simply get branded a sure means. Additionally objective is basically essential to us. It’s actually essential.
That’s one of many causes the workforce is having such a tough time is as a result of we’re making an attempt to rent millennials and we’re making an attempt to rent them in companies. And what we’re chatting with is if you happen to’ll put on this a lot work, you’ll make this a lot cash. What we wish to know is what’s the impression. So, yeah.
And I’m, you recognize, after all, I don’t understand how everyone feels, however I feel that’s. That’s one thing that’s received to be made conscious to our church buildings.
[00:21:09] Tim: And I feel from, you recognize, coming off of Gen X and the boomers I feel there’s with Millennials. There’s extra of the why of why can we do what we do? Like I mentioned earlier than, and never simply my mother and father did it.
My mother and father did it. And it’s simply one thing we all the time have achieved. I feel there’s extra of the questions. There’s extra of the questions of, okay, let’s. Let’s dive into this just a little bit. Why can we imagine this? Why did I develop up this fashion? Am I simply Christian trigger I used to be born in a Christian family. Like there’s loads of probing questions that I feel have to be addressed by the church and typically subjects which might be averted.
And so to get solutions. You discover them in different methods. You discover them on social media. You discover them asking your liberal pals. After which hastily you go down this path of deconstructing is the phrase now, you recognize, we’ll truly speak about that on a future episode as a result of it’s one thing that, you recognize, what spurs that on is often a basis.
That’s not rooted. And Jesus mentioned to construct your basis on him. And when the winds and waves comes you’ll keep you’ll stand agency. And so in case your basis was by no means robust to start with, if you happen to have been simply driving the coattails of your mother and father religion then yeah, when the waves of life hit and once you’re confronted with the well being analysis or somebody dies, you begin to query what’s the level of life?
Why am I even right here? And if there is no such thing as a God, then I’m going to simply reside for myself. And get all the things I can. And you recognize, this development additionally talks about that millennials will face one of many greatest wealth transfers in human historical past. And they also’re going to, and so they have been inheriting cash.
In order that they’re going to be a really rich section of society and primarily based on the place their values are, is the place they’re going to place their cash. And they also’re going to put money into issues that they relate to. So church buildings ought to be good to your millennials. Trigger you recognize,
[00:22:50] Drew: yeah, completely. Yeah, these are all nice factors.
The third factor that he introduced up. I feel is basically essential Gen Z will begin to reshape the church. That’s enjoyable to say Gen Z Will begin to reshape the church and anybody listening to that is going cool. Yeah. No, that’s nice. Okay So, so what which means is you’re going to should lean in, you’re going to should ask some questions, you’re going to have to search out out what they need, you’re going to should put them into like alternatives of possession, you’re going to have to present them duty and what occurs.
You understand, that is a part of it and I feel the most effective issues and pay attention, I’m, I like bragging on my church. I do. Not as a result of I feel I’m getting all the things proper. I simply suppose our folks have saved me from myself just a little bit. Like they’re, they’re unbelievable and so I like bragging on our church.
One of many best issues that we’ve achieved is the primary Sunday of each month. We do what’s known as scholar takeover. That is the place college students actually do all the things. And I imply, all the things. Yeah. I had a 16 yr previous preach a message. The scholars lead worship, the scholars do manufacturing. The scholars do visitor expertise.
The scholars are with adults in youngsters ministry and we do it. Each single month the primary Sunday of the month and man you wish to speak about massive Sundays You suppose easter is essential have mother and pa come have a look at little johnny singing on stage Have mother and pa come watch little johnny serving within the parking zone.
We get mothers and dads Grandparents aunts and uncles. All of them go to totally different church buildings. That’s high-quality However they present up that Sunday and so they know that after we say we imagine in reaching the subsequent technology and setting them up and discipling them and making an attempt to make them profitable, they know we imply it.
Trigger we don’t simply say stuff like that. We present it. And now I’ve received like, I had a scholar pull me to the aspect the opposite day and ask if like he might along with his telephone on Sundays do some social media stuff for us. I’m like, please do. As a result of I don’t perceive TikTok. So I’d love that. Had one other man pull me to the aspect, Hey, my fellowship of Christian athletes meets on this Tuesday.
And due to some issues that I’ve been in a position to do right here on the church, I lastly really feel assured sufficient and daring sufficient to talk. So will you pray for me Tuesday morning? As a result of I’m going to be chatting with a few hundred youngsters at my college and telling them about my religion. I’m identical to, what? I didn’t do any of that.
I simply gave them, I simply gave them a spot. I simply gave them a chance. What they do with it’s as much as them. So yeah, you’ve received to lean into that or we’re gonna have loads of church buildings You understand, this was my story too The place mother and pa goes to church, the coed goes to church, then the coed is sufficiently old to make their very own selections.
They don’t come to church anymore. Proper. And we are able to’t have that. I’m simply telling you, we are able to’t have that. I’m so sick of it. That occurred with my technology, virtually everyone I do know, had a narrative like me. I grew up in church. One thing occurred. I didn’t prefer it. I went away from the church and now they’re both nonetheless away from the church or now they’re again And that i’m simply telling you prefer it’s not going to occur prefer it’s not going to occur It might probably’t occur on my watch.
It might probably’t occur on yours can’t occur on our watch So proper we have now to lean into gen z and which means we received to be okay with them performing some Issues which might be questionable and possibly we want they wouldn’t have achieved after which correcting when it occurs. That implies that we received to be okay with letting go, proper?
And and that’s what nice leaders do. Leaders let go, proper? Leaders let go. Managers don’t let go. Managers let you know find out how to do issues. Leaders let go. So, hopefully that’s what the church does.
[00:26:57] Tim: That’s actually good. Each in church and in enterprise world. Like if you happen to’re going to micromanage one thing, you’re going to be stressed and also you’re going to work further.
However if you happen to begin rising leaders who can do that stuff that, that you just’ve achieved for therefore lengthy, if you happen to can let that go you’ll not solely have peace, however you’ll even be able the place you may step away or take trip or flip over the corporate if it’s essential, to any person else. Yeah. Prefer it’s only a win.
And I feel in church to Carey Nieuwof, have talked about this as effectively. He had some younger leaders on the podcast and he actually, I didn’t even take into consideration this, however you recognize, earlier generations, youngsters grew up, , working in factories at younger ages, proper. Which isn’t good, however they have been entrusted with extra at a youthful age.
And now we’ve sort of changed into, Oh, you’re 30. Properly, let’s provide you with one other 10 years earlier than I provide you with one thing to do. It’s like, what?
[00:27:44] Drew: Yeah. What’s that by the way in which? Like what, why is that? As a result of I that was my expertise and I simply don’t I wasn’t good I’m nonetheless not good like so i’m not saying like any person ought to have given me one thing as a result of I used to be like a wise child However I didn’t even suppose there was an opportunity At church rising up that I’d do something apart from like no matter my mother and father needed me to do.
[00:28:10] Tim: Yeah, I feel it, it simply comes down to manage, like feeling like it’s important to management it and never trusting folks. The factor is, you recognize, once you have a look at somebody, you’re like, they will’t do it. However you’re additionally not being keen to mentor them and present them find out how to do it. Thanks. You’re simply diminishing them earlier than they even had the chance.
So it comes from a spot of laziness and simply, I feel, mistrust. However it’s, I feel it’s bizarre how ages sort of work now the place 50 was previous and now it’s like, you recognize, the Those who look 50 60 right now seem like they did of their 40s earlier than and now folks of their 80s seem like they did after they have been 60 again within the 80s.
And it’s only a bizarre factor with ages and the way folks have sort of maintained their youngness with proper. Proper. And it’s inflicting that. However my level is that You understand, as folks grow old and may, you recognize, not simply retire at 60 or no matter they’re making an attempt to carry the keys and the reins as an alternative of releasing that to the youthful technology.
And I feel that each can occur, however I additionally suppose it’s harmful the place you recognize, the typical senior pastor in America is popping 60 this yr. In order that’s not a wholesome mannequin. If these folks retire, cross away, transfer on the place you haven’t grown.
Carey has this tweet to Gen Z doesn’t simply wish to seat at your desk. They’d like a voice and a vote and so they deserve one.
[00:29:33] Drew: Yeah. And I don’t. I’ll be trustworthy with you. Like, I don’t wish to, I don’t wish to like lead a church until I’m 60. I’m not saying that I don’t wish to be like an advisor. I don’t wish to be concerned one way or the other, however preaching each Sunday from now after I’m 37 until 60, what a boring existence that looks as if.
[00:29:54] Tim: You may transfer on and it could be one thing you’re extra captivated with or extra.
[00:29:57] Drew: Can I get a problem? Have you learnt how straightforward it’s to put in writing a sermon once you’re 60 and also you’ve been doing it for 20, 30 years? Come on, man. Like, give me a problem.
[00:30:07] Tim: 5, 5 plus years of sermons, and also you assure that nobody will keep in mind a sermon you preached 5 years in the past.
Yeah. I’m gonna preach, proper? I’m
[00:30:13] Drew: simply repetition child. Yeah. I, yeah, I can’t imagine that stat of they’re gonna flip 60. Gen Z does want a voice. Now I’ll say that is my very own criticism as a result of I don’t wish to simply sound like, you recognize, oh, I figured it out with this entire scholar takeover factor.
My very own criticism to myself is that this typically., I’ll hand the keys to somebody and I haven’t taken the time to show them find out how to drive. Proper? So typically there’ll simply be a automotive and I’ll be like, Hey man, you wish to try this? Listed below are the keys.
And then you definitely blame them. And so, and there you go. After which they wreck the automotive and I’m like, what are you doing wrecking the automotive? It’s like, effectively, I simply. I simply took the keys man So we have now to be intentional And we and actually the most effective issues i’ve achieved is i’ve simply defined that to college students and younger adults I’ve been like, hey, can I simply be trustworthy with you for a second?
Generally prior to now i’ve had a tough time With handing folks an excessive amount of duty with out giving them path So I need you to carry me accountable in that I wish to just remember to ask actually good questions I wish to be sure after I say have you learnt what I imply? You actually know what I imply?
I wish to be sure after I say questions like so say that again to me you are able to do that You’re prepared for that sort of response and I wish to be sure we’re on the identical web page as a result of I by no means wish to set you As much as fail. So listed below are the keys Let’s speak about find out how to drive after which it’s not like me educating them pressuring them Lording over them.
They perceive the backstory like i’m right here for you. I need you to achieve success However, you recognize, I haven’t all the time achieved that effectively prior to now. I wish to try this effectively this time.
[00:31:51] Tim: That’s an superior caveat. I like that. So yeah, embrace Gen Z. They’re wanted, they’re needed and church buildings that don’t want or need them won’t have them.
You’ll have church buildings which might be 60 plus common attendance and Good luck discovering a youthful technology to return in. That’s a dying church proper there.
[00:32:07] Drew: And for me, like Gen Z goes to be main my youngsters. In order that they higher be proper. Like they higher, we received it.
We received to get it. We received to get it. Trigger I want my youngsters to get it.
[00:32:19] Tim: And actual fast, like going again to understanding what your church. is concerned in and the way it’s responding to the group. Like understanding the age ranges and constructions of your church is so essential as a result of if you happen to’re not serving a kind of generations you’re going to lose them.
And we’ve seen that point and time once more. I imply, seniors, like there’s a lot worth in seniors and the knowledge they’ve and the truth that, you recognize, they’re not going to possibly run circles round you or be there 40 hours every week, however they don’t should be, they will mentor, they will have. You understand, knowledge and say into the subsequent technology as effectively.
And so don’t low cost your seniors both. So subsequent one, quantity 4 is discipleship has a rising digital part. My favourite one. No. Yeah. I like this one too. You understand, Church buildings which might be altering actually beginning with 2020 when it’s like, Hey, we have to do reside stream. Let’s determine this out the place so many ignored it for years and years, regardless that many church buildings have been doing reside stream, it got here out of necessity and what church buildings are discovering digitally is that the extra that you just ignore it and the extra that you just act like social media doesn’t exist, the extra that you just’re going to be left behind when folks attempt to discover sources and so they can’t discover you.
You’re precisely proper. Thanks. And this particularly is speaking about discipleship, not simply social media. And that’s a part of it. However what do you suppose drew simply your ideas on discipleship, particularly digitally you recognize, usually discipleship in church buildings could be a gaggle, a life group some sort of in individual operate separate from Sunday morning, possibly a one on one mentorship or an precise group itself.
How do you suppose that may translate to.
[00:33:59] Drew: Properly, initially, in loads of methods, however I feel you bought to begin with what you outline it as. As a church, we throw out loads of phrases group, discipleship after which somebody comes alongside and goes, Oh, what’s discipleship? And also you go, effectively, you recognize, discipling others and it’s like, Oh, what’s discipleship?
Does everybody in your church know what discipleship means? Does everybody in your church know what group means? Likelihood is they don’t. So it’s important to outline discipleship. Our good friend on a podcast lately mentioned discipleship is discipling folks to disciple different folks, proper? I feel that’s an ideal definition.
If you wish to rework the phrases and make it a Fb put up, go for it. Discipling folks is about discipling different folks, not getting essentially in a gaggle and educating them. That’s educating. We wish to disciple folks in order that implies that entire gen z that you just have been speaking about we wish to disciple gen z In order that they will then go to varsity and have a bible examine of their dorm room So we don’t wish to simply educate them.
We wish to disciple them in order that they will then disciple others So if that’s the definition that we’re going to go together with that modifications then what digital elements seem like of discipleship as a result of If you happen to simply have a look at what most church buildings are doing Their model of digital discipleship most church buildings. I’m not saying all church buildings, however most church buildings Their model of digital discipleship is right here’s our sermon from this previous sunday Listed below are three instagram reels throughout the week of what our pastor mentioned this previous sunday There’s a development if you happen to haven’t observed and after which right here’s this, collage of images from this previous sunday we put up one thing like Sunday was nice.
Sunday was fireplace. Sunday was wonderful. God actually moved. That’s my favourite one. God moved in such a particular means. God moved in such a novel means. God is within the constructing. Properly, that’s nice stuff, proper? However is that discipleship? Properly, no that’s advertising and marketing. That’s celebrating. Nonetheless you wish to have a look at it.
However that’s not discipleship. So what which means is as arduous as that is to listen to, and as arduous as that is, even for me to reside out, as a result of I’ll be trustworthy with you, that is my favourite one. The explanation that is my favourite one is as a result of we don’t do that. Properly, we’ll give me six months. We’re going to do that rather well.
However if you happen to’re going to have the ability to do a small group at your property, then you are able to do a small group on zoom. If you are able to do a small group within the church, then you are able to do a small group on zoom. If you happen to don’t have childcare at your church, then you are able to do a small group on zoom. Every thing you are able to do in individual, you are able to do on zoom.
Now I get it. Hey, nose to nose is totally different than display time. Oh, completely. Display screen time is draining. Nose to nose is nearly energizing. I completely get it. You then higher determine a option to get energized. You higher determine a option to get energized from the display. If you happen to can’t determine it out, you’re going to lose.
And in order that’s the place it’s received to begin. After which who else is speaking throughout the week apart from your pastor? So I’ve received three, we’re going to place up three reels of how good the sermon was Sunday. Is that every one you bought? That’s all you bought. So you bought one dude. You bought one dude who loves Jesus and teaches the Bible.
You don’t have anyone that’s keen to go reside throughout the week. Arrange an occasion, create an occasion, go reside throughout the week and interact with the feedback. Are they too scared? Are they anxious about manufacturing high quality? Are you anxious no person will present up and discuss within the feedback? You simply have one dude.
[00:37:43] Tim: All that may occur by the way in which. All that occur. Everybody will occur.
[00:37:48] Drew: At first. Yeah, everybody will occur. That’ll all the time occur at first. However if you happen to make it a precedence, what I can promise you is you make it a precedence, give it 30 days, do it each week. Like if you happen to say Tuesday mornings at 7 a. m., I’m going to have espresso.
Will you have got espresso with me? We’re going to speak in regards to the sermon from Sunday and I’m not the pastor. Okay, cool sit try this do it for 30 days and I assure you on that fourth tuesday of the final month There’s going to be 5 or 6 different folks which might be sitting down with their espresso And so they’re going to interact with you and so they’re going to wish to know what you considered the sermon and so they’re going to inform You what they thought yeah, after which subsequent factor, you recognize, you begin bringing them onto the digicam And also you discuss with them after which they create up and so spherical and spherical we go So something you’re doing in individual, you bought to suppose by way of the idea of what does this seem like digitally
if not, you’re going to be a kind of church buildings that 10 years from now goes, you recognize, we actually ought to add a recent service and I’ve by no means heard extra harmful phrases spoken.
[00:38:48] Tim: Let’s have a service that appeals to each group that involves our church. Yeah, no, that’s harmful, however that’s what’s occurring, proper?
Yeah, that’s what you mentioned, as a result of it truly is about stepping out of your consolation zone. Prefer it’s not snug to leap on reside. It’s not snug to attempt to work together with the digital useful resource you’re not acquainted with. And you recognize, if you happen to’re a pastor, if you happen to’re senior pastor if somebody within the church just isn’t doing that, possibly you may step in you probably have a say of their life to, to supply that up or to supply to arrange stuff like, Hey, actually all it’s important to do is present as much as this sofa.
And discuss for 20 minutes and I’ll even provide you with a subject and I’ll hit document and it’s important to do nothing like you may try this. That could possibly be useful. However I feel that is actually an untapped market. And for as a lot as I’m on social media, like I, even for our church, like we’re nonetheless. Doing the in individual teams.
And I like what you mentioned about zoom teams, as a result of why not? Why not provide that like, yeah, a lot of a all or nothing strategy. And you recognize, when Carey Nieuwhof talks about social media, it talks about, it’s often achieved as an evangelism factor or a development technique. You understand, we’re both making an attempt to develop our present group or we’re making an attempt to evangelize.
And people are the 2 methods you see social media. Not simply rising, however what about discipling? What about providing one thing? You understand, we have now a pastor discuss podcast we do to sort of dive deep right into a topic that we could not be capable of cowl on Sunday. You understand, but in addition with that, just like the pastors which might be out entrance of this, those which might be Those which might be tweeting or X ing those which might be doing little brief, you recognize, two minute, like, Hey, right here’s me.
I’m strolling to the fitness center. I simply wish to encourage you right now to be sure to don’t hand over on the objectives you began for the yr. I feel this was a yr or two in the past. I did uh, I used to be challenged to do one thing like a 5 minute video or possibly a two minute video day by day for 30 days. And so I did a each day discernment factor and.
That was very robust, you recognize, to push your self to not miss a day and to do, to provide you with one thing. And seems I got here up with one thing and seems you may provide you with one thing. If you happen to’re listening, you have got that in you. God’s given you talents and giftings to, be capable of share his phrase to speak about what you’re studying.
And so possibly you try this personally. Perhaps you you recognize, began my very own ministry to encourage folks on social media some time again. So possibly it’s not slightly below the context of a church, however if you happen to’re listening and also you’re like, I don’t have an avenue for that. You will have a telephone, you have got a option to encourage others.
And if you happen to can accomplice together with your church and try this.
[00:41:17] Drew: that was 4 of them and that was enjoyable. And now
[00:41:24] Tim: half two, we should finish for now.
[00:41:26] Drew: Yeah, we should finish for now, however half two goes to be subsequent week. Proper? In order that’s going to be actually thrilling. And so if you happen to loved half one, we wish to hear from you. You may all the time e mail the podcast.
You may all the time attain out to us. On social media. However anyway we are able to hear some suggestions from you. That’d be nice. You may e mail us at eyes on Jesus podcast at outlook. com and all the time can hit up Tim on discerning dad or you may lookup drew Barker and mine’s like drew S Barker, which is, yeah, I imply, no matter, simply discover it.
Drew’s Barker, no matter. And that’ll in all probability want to alter. And Hey, and share the podcast, like, and share the podcast. We’d like to know what your church is taking a look at going into this yr, however as all the time go together with God, develop in discernment and preserve your eyes on Jesus.